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Thursday, 27 August 2009

會長理事會開除蔡細歷的理由,更適用于翁詩杰

以下是馬華會長理事會在開出蔡細歷聲明中所給出的理由:

经过冗长详细的讨论,有鉴于拿督斯里蔡细历性爱光碟对党形象所造成的伤害,会长理事会基于党的利益,今天以沉重的心情,集体决定接受纪律委员会的建议,开除拿督斯里蔡细历的党籍,即日生效

奇哉怪也,我左看右看,上看下看,怎樣都覺得以上這個理由,不管在時效性還是開除的了理據來說,都更適用于我們的翁大總會長!不相信只要把名字和理由換一換就可以啦:

经过冗长详细的讨论,有鉴于拿督斯里翁詩杰涉嫌收受一千萬捐款对党形象所造成的伤害,会长理事会基于党的利益,今天以沉重的心情,集体决定接受纪律委员会的建议,开除拿督斯里翁詩杰的党籍,即日生效

對吧?!
翁詩杰最近的案件,明明對馬華破壞更大更兇(不信去咖啡店看看還有誰在討論老蔡的光碟?大家討論的都是翁總的一千萬啊!),怎么會長理事會又不對付翁詩杰了?

翁總啊翁總啊,別忘了當你一根手指指著別人的時候,其他四只手指可是指著自己的啊!

繼續閱讀其他翁大總會長的文章

翁大部長的去做功課
支持蔡細歷不入閣
前无古人的翁诗杰
翁大總會長梭哈了!會長理事會通過開除蔡細歷的決議了!!!
翁詩杰的垂死掙扎
【轉載】高級總會長
會長理事會開除蔡細歷的理由,更適用于翁詩杰
好個不須對外公開

42 评论 Comments:

Anonymous said...

Hi ! I'm just an ordinary house wife who used to drink coffee in kopitiam every morning. What I gathered is Mr Ong still getting plenty or rather huge support fr Chinese uncles and aunties (most of them are not from MCA), he is just trying very best to push MCA back to the right track, and I don't think he would be so stupid to collect the monies when a so called 'witness' by the tycoon was around. So we shouldn't jump into conclusion b4 evidence is obtained.

~aNG~伟翔 said...

Hi, nice to see you here.

I understand. But please do compare the impact of this two issues towards the MCA (simply because this is the reason used by disciplinary board of MCA to sack Chua). The two issues, namely the RM10m scandal and the sex scandal.

In my article, i just pointed out that if Ong tee keat can used such an outdated reason to sack Chua Soi Lek (the sex scandal happened more than a one year ago and the file had been closed and the complaint had also withdrawn the complain), it's have no reason for the disciplinary board to open an account to check over the dispute of the RM10m scandal involved by Ong Tee Keat.

In fact, in my opinion, the Ong's scandal made a greater impact towards MCA. Just read through the newspapers of these few days, i’m quite sure that you will notice this.

Thus, my conclusion is, Ong Tee Keat was clearly misused his power., and this is totally unfair towards Chua Sooi Lek.
That’s all in my article.

*ps: Please allow me to reiterate my article. In my article, i never mentioned about the support of the Ong Tee Keat, it is no doubt that he do have plenty of the support, but please remember, the support for Chua Soi Lek is no doubt either. Besides, i also never said that Ong did took the RM10m, it's a suspicion, but the impact to the MCA is no doubt, the rumours had hurt the MCA. Applying the reason given out by the disciplinary board, President Ong should also be sacked.

~aNG~伟翔 said...

翁詩杰最近的案件,明明對馬華破壞更大更兇(不信去咖啡點看看還有誰在討論老蔡的光碟?大家討論的都是翁總的一千萬啊!),怎么會長理事會又不對付翁詩杰了?

This is the original sentence i used, do u disagree with my statement? I never mentioned "support" in my statement, what i had mentioned is the "discussion of the uncles aunties" to show which topic is hotter now.

Anonymous said...

Hi ! Me Again. As you've mentioned, Mr Ong's case was just suspecion & rumour, anybody could set the trap and say he has been paid for huge lum sum now or even in future, so how MCA disciplinary board going to do with it, suspend or sack him everytime without evidence ? It is not fair for him, right ? Whereas for Mr Chuah's case, he was caught in red handed with evidence, so it should be a different story. It's just my little opinion, no harm done, ok ?

~aNG~伟翔 said...

ya, of course no harm, we are having a discussion here, it's good for both of us and others as well. Thank you for willing discuss this issue with me.^^

I 100% do agree that Ong's case is rumour and suspicion. But please look at the Ong's reaction towards this scandal, he did not react well to it and this did really hurt MCA. No matter the scandal is true or lie, but the hurt is simply there.

Thus, apply this to the Disciplinary board's mind-> do something that hurt MCA=Sack, then Ong Tee Keat should be sacked too.

As i mentioned several times, Ong's scandal is hotter now and most of the people did not even talk about Chua's sex tape anymore. If the disciplinary board did not reopen the file, and Ong didn't repeat the sex scandal several times, this issue will even never be reported in newspaper again (it is undeniable facts that everytime Ong Tee Keat mentioned Chua Soi Lek name, he will link Chua to the sex tape and conclude that he is a immoral man, is this malicious enough?).

Why Disciplinary Board took action against a case which had already close (even the complainant had withdrawn the complain) and happened nearly two years ago? This is the question have to be answered. Special service for Ong?

Would you mind to put your name here? Just wanted to make friend with you.

Snowpiano^ ^ said...

House wife in kopitiam???
Wat a coincidence after u mention kopitam in ur article yah...
This make me remind some friend who work in INSAP.. :P
em.. well..i just wonder...:P

Nice to meet u too, house wife in kopitiam...

Anonymous said...

Hi, house wife in kopitiam, sorry to say that you didn't use your brain to analyse things. Putting aside the RM 10 billion, Ong had greatly abused his position as a transport Minister, who is not allowed to use private plane. Only the PM is allowed according to GO. Do you know what is GO? Even comes to crucial moment, he has to seek approval from PM, and use the government LO b4 he can hire a private plane. He may argued that he can pay himself, but when Tiong's asst asked him to pay, he and his secretary (another ... sigh!) asked them to send the bill to Tansport Department. OMG, what sort of person they are Even many ministers and former ministers admitted that he is in no way to hire a private plane, you still back him? Moreover, when Tiong's company is under investigation, he must refrain from getting close to Tiong, this is also written very clearly in GO. Ignorance is no excuse. Only STUPID fools will believe these. When a minister can't follow GO, he is NOT fit to be a minister. MACC and police must come in now to investigate his abuse of power. Dear house wife in Kopitiam, do u know there are 3 types of corruption that mACC can take against?
1. Corruption of Money / monetary game
2. Corruption of Power leading to personal interest or related issues
3. Corruption of time.
wake up, house wife in Kopitiam. Don't be so naive and childish!!!!

~aNG~伟翔 said...

Yes, I agree with the 2nd Anonymous (see how difficult to address you all, so please leave a nick or whatever here to make our discussions easier^^).

Ong Tee Keat did abused his power, not only in the capacity of president of MCA.

That's why i keep emphasized this: Ong Tee Keat does not equal to Investigations of PKFZ scandal. Support OTK doesn't mean support the investigations of PKFZ scandal. This two have to make a clear distinction.

Anonymous said...

Hi, Blogger, 2nd anonymous again, called me Kampong Anonymous (in fact, i am a real kampong ma, but that does not mean that im not educated, maybe literally I am less). I agree totally with you, supporting Ong doesn't mean you will have a thorough and proper investigation of the PKFZ, and against Ong doesn't mean you let go without investigating the PKFZ issues. What I agree here is when Ong was formerly close with Tiong (free planes etc and who knows more?), then he is in no way to carry out any investigation into the pKFZ issues, because of conflict of interest. I am so sad here that why so many of the MCA members don't seem to use any logical sense in this case? Don't tell me none these MCA members and other chinese who supported him are so ignorant of law? OMG, help our chinese community at large, educate them.
Years back, i was not happy with Dr. Chua as well, especially when he was the secretary General of mCA, but he condemned Lim AL so much during the A & B fragments of MCA.
But then everyone know that the wife and his family members had excused him, moreover, the central committee of MCA had also forgiven him and voted him as the 2nd man to lead the party.So, why only now take action against a person who had designed from all the posts when the issue cropped out? Moreover, the old disciplinary board already closed the case!
Know what, I changed my opinion abt him party due to the recent cases happened in government hospitals n the Denggue n A H1N1 cases. Know what, most of teh medical staff and patients who frequent government hospitals unonamously mentioned that Dr. Chua is thus far the bEST Minister of Health and Datuk Chua JM the second, the rest n present oner, needless to say. So, u want to eradicate this type of good minister and let the nuts be the deputy ministers and ministers to disgrace chinese? OMG, only stupid fools will do that! Wake up, all mCA members who still have conscience!!!!!

shinliang said...

I will leave my name. And you know me well. =D

Sorry to say that despite I'm no MCA supporter, I agree with anonymous 1 and 2 (or maybe 3?).

You argued that since both the sex scandal and the sacking of Ong's deputy have equally huge 'impact' on MCA, therefore both are equally 'eligible' to be sacked. This is a mistake. A 'hotter' issue, as you put it, doesn't make that issue any more wrong or right. It's the motive behind the actions that counts. There is little doubt that the sex scandal that Chua has embroiled himself in will render him useless in future elections. This is just like giving free ammo for Pakatan to shoot. Whereas Ong's embroilment in the so-called corruption is merely a speculation. And I think he deserves the benefit of doubt since the accuser is the victim of this investigations into PKFZ.

If Anwar becomes M'sia PM one day and say NEP has ended. It will be a damn 'hot' issue. Does that mean he's doing more harm? Obviously, sacking Chua is a big issue, mainly because he has a lot of supporters. But it doesn't make the action of sacking any more right or wrong. In long run, MCA will need to clear all the different factions it has within MCA. It will be painful, because many of the supporters (perhaps corrupted supporters) will make a big issue out of it. But this pain, MCA will have to endure. In fact, I believe the previous Ong (Ong Ka Ting) should have done this for Ong Tee Keat. Eventually, someone had to do this dirty job - to kill of a the factions in MCA and unite MCA. In the long run, it's a good thing for the organisation. (whether it's good for M'sia remains to be seen).

so yes, Mr. Ang Woei Shang, a trained lawyer (student?), we should not judge someone's guilt based on how much impact it has on the newspaper. Killing off a 'cancer' will definitely have -ve repercussions. But in the long run it's for the better. How could you then blame the action of killing the cancer? So you should have argued, whether Chua is indeed a cancerous growth. For me, he is.

To say that the disciplinary board's statement is equally applicable to Ong's is like what the chinese says, "screwing a bull's horn"?

You say that the hurt - or rather the correct word to use is "damage" - is done, whether in Ong's case or Chua's case. True. But which is "forgivable" and "unavoidable". One is for exposing corruption, the other is for exposing himself. You think both the same? I can see the similarity - exposing.

shinliang said...

p/s:

Dr. Chua is a great, charismatic, and capable leader. No doubt on that.

I even agree that a leader's capacity should not be judges on his moral grounds.

But this is Malaysia. You can only go so far when there's a "rock hard solid" evidence against you for oral sex - which is illegal in Malaysia. He can be convicted anytime. Besides, no one would like a sex-tainted political figure in Malaysia. You can be no. 2, but I think it's not possible to be no.1

MCA can only have one leader. It's either him toppling Ong, or the other way round. Given the above point, if I am the omni-present God of MCA, I would have do the same. If you are a far-sighted leader, you'd have done the same - however painful the decision is.

shinliang said...

anonymous 2 (kampong anonymous),

you are so analytical that you are arguing out of point. Ong being corrupted has nothing to do with the sacking of Chua.

Chua would have been corrupted too.

Which MCA or BN component party doesn't indulge in at least a certain degree of corruption?

This is another matter. It is the reason why we do not vote for BN or MCA, not the reason why Ong shouldn't sack Chua Soi Lek.

~aNG~伟翔 said...

Shin Liang, long long time no see you liao^^, hope you are fine in London.

Back to the topic.
"Hotter" in my statement is not merely hot in the sense that more people discussed it. The point it's hurt MCA. In the RM10m scandal, it's undisputed that OTK does not really make himself clear from the suspicion, he just try to avoid it. This actually raised more suspicions against him. Needless to say that he have some personal relations with Tiong King Sing, more doubts arose.

Frankly, i don't think i'm screwing the bull's horn. They given out the statement saying CSL hurt the party (approximately 2 years ago) without elaborate it, so i just apply this to OTK situation. No matter OTK received the money or not, the fact is he did hurt he party)

Hotter issue can be good or bad, but unfortunately, in OTK case, it's bad.

In this point, i agree with the some leaders of the Perak MCA divisions. Few days ago, they requested the party to suspend OTK capacity as president until the case is settle. When you are in a reasonable suspicion of a wrong, you shouldn't hold the post as it's likely to have a conflict of interest.

Anyway, in this article, i'm not really mean that the OTK should be sacked like the manner they sacked CSL. I just wanted to point out that they way they sacked CSL is totally unreasonable and unacceptable. (i understand that "damage" is a more proper word to for a party, but what i want to mean is "伤害" not "破坏", so i choice hurt rather than damage.)

Shin Liang, in your view, you agree that MCA should sacked CSL as to the sex scandal. For this point, i'm not agree with you.

Shin Liang, i think you have try to perfect the Disciplinary board action (or more accurately OTK's action) by try to perfect their acts with your own mind. If OTK really feel that CSL is not suitable to lead the party, why he wait until now to take action? in the early stage, even at the time of the party election, he did not said a single words towards the CSL scandal and his even claimed that he can work well with CSL. I would rather say that he choose to take action to sack CSL is not because the noble reason that you have raise, he just simply afraid CSL “rampas kuasa” from him.

As i have said, only OTK did mentioned the sex scandal and use this to attack CSL. I didn't see any other people had using this as a weapon to attack MCA anymore, even by the opposition parties and in the by-elections.

Besides, "S377A carnal intercourse againt the order of nature [include mouth and anus sex]" is an outdated and brutal law. Although it's a criminal offence, the AG seldom sue people by virtue of this section. Singapore who have the same sections in their penal code had amended this section. Malaysia had also opt to do the same, a committee had been organised with this purpose (this according to my Prof., she claimed that she is one of the committee member). ah liang, i bet that you agree that anus or mouth sex is not a big matter at all, isn't^^?

Don't you agree that he did misused his power? He just ignored the choices of the MCA representative.

*please feel free to correct my grammar and language error. I trying hard to improve my language! Thanks a lot.

~aNG~伟翔 said...

“But this is Malaysia. You can only go so far when there's a "rock hard solid" evidence against you for oral sex - which is illegal in Malaysia. He can be convicted anytime. Besides, no one would like a sex-tainted political figure in Malaysia. You can be no. 2, but I think it's not possible to be no.1”

The facts is, the MCA representatives like him and elected him as the Deputy. You can argued rakyat may no like him, but who knows? For me, I don't like OTK more.

shinliang said...

you should thank me for making your blog so popular! =P

first or all, most of the arguments here are digressing from the original post. your post wanted to say that the statement released by disciplinary board is also applicable to OTK.

And your rationale for that is: his recent reaction and action caused the same, if not bigger, (negative) perceptions on MCA.

I read your post again. Well, if you are saying that both OTK and Chua has degraded MCA's image then you are right. Both has done so. So, in a way, you are right, the statement is applicable to both.

For many DAP supporter like you, you would like to think OTK really did accepted the bribes. And before any evidence comes in, you like to judge. For the sake of argument, let's say you are right, OTK did take those money. But we all know that everyone in BN takes money. OTK's 'endeavour' was exposed because he himself was trying to expose another corruption affair.

So, in the eyes of MCA, I believe that the -ve perception caused by OTK was inevitable. But was Chua's inevitable too?

OTK was accused by the 'victim' of PKFZ scandal, who has issue with credibility and has only do what he's doing now out of vengeance. To top it all, it has not been proven. It's just speculation, i.e. "why hasn't he denied everything?"

Now Chua's evidence is rock solid. (you know? solid? =P)

How can you compare this two?

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

On other things that we argued, but I personally think has less relevance to your original post:

1. No matter what you say about the law. The law is a law. If Chua becomes an elected representative or no.1 man, you may be ok with that, and even if rakyat is ok with that, will pakatan stay mum? Anwar will surely bring this to court.

You are Pakatan's double agent right?! I know...u want Chua become no.1 and then you can ask Pakatan to topple him in the next GE...cunning la you.

The point is this: you may not like MCA. but what would you if you love MCA and want it to be better? choose someone who is susceptible to imprisonment and criminal charges to be your no.1 man? is that a wise choice?

So don't ask me if I think anal/oral sex is a big deal. Even if I think it's NOT a big deal, the fact is there is a LAW that makes him vulnerable. It is a matter of fact, not opinion.


2. keeping Chua would only mean that factions fighting among each other in MCA will continue to happen. either must go, if not Chua then it's must be Ong. Who must go?

The real reason isn't important. The important thing is that someone must go. If you want to pick on the statement he/MCA release to the press on the 'fake' reasons why Chua was sacked, isn't that screwing the bull's horn?

C'mon, you know politics better than I. Do you really expect politicians to say something like, "I sack him because he's my enemy and I want to unite MCA?". The important thing is the motive behind the action.

Anwar would have done the same. So would Lim Kit Siang or Lim Guan Eng. If they want to sack someone due to political ideology differences, they will only do it in indirect means.

3. Finally, you ask, why NOW? Why sack him now?

If Ong sacked him immediately after the AGM, people would still ask, "why now?". Shouldn't Ong let the dust settle in first before taking actions?

The point is, anytime is not a good time to sack your deputy.

But if I am the head of MCA and I had to do it, I would have do it some time around now too. Settle in first; take some time to be comfortable with the position of head of MCA; let time wash off people's memory of the earlier incident; test the water first; Then only, I take action.

If I sacked Chua at the last AGM, at the height of so many anti-Ong campaign and instability within MCA, would it be a wise choice?

To doubt the timing of this announcement, is not a VALID reason that Chua should not be sacked.

LET THERE BE NO DOUBT THAT THIS IS A POLITICAL ASSASSINATION. but it could be a good thing for MCA.

shinliang said...

and oh...about your language a....
too much error la..... =P

but I understand what you are trying to say la. I make a lot of grammar mistakes too.

But just keep on writing and speaking in English, it'll improve...eventually.

shinliang said...

ermm....one more thing...(i'm very free tonight lol)

quoting your previous comments, "...i understand that "damage" is a more proper word to for a party, but what i want to mean is "伤害" not "破坏", so i choice hurt rather than damage..."

still the same you arr! =P

Anonymous said...

Shin Liang, sorry to say that I wonder whether you are a so called 'new-age' girl. I am Kampong Anonymous here. There is one thing which you are still not familiar with Malaysian politics and politicians. Years back (even till now), many of the politicians committed some sort of scandals, but none had the guts to confess in the beginning until later when they were brought to court and proved guilty (not many, just a few, sigh). Dr. Chua is thus far the FIRST, bear in mind, the first, to admit of his wrong doings!!!!! I didn't have the chance to watch the video, and I would never want to watch his video, but I was told by some one that in fact, it was not very clear, and hardly could people recognize his face, but he admitted, dear miss Shin Liang, he admitted! What a gentleman he is, a rare species of malaysian politician! His family pardoned him, more so the central committee of MCA accepted his apology, deliquishing all the MCA and government posts by saying sorry and withdrawing himself. So they gave him a second chance to be one of the leaders to lead the party.
I can be considered a main figure in my work place, but I have to give chances to my immediate subordinates to do some work within certain frame work of the organization, I practice lots of 'empowerment', I have to learn to tolerate mistakes made by my immediate subordinates, because they too have their lower subordinates (each of my immediate subordinate heads some departments and being "boss" of the departments), and back them up as I need to make the whole organization in progress. We need to learn to have feelings of forgiveness, dear Miss Shin Liang!

Dear Miss Shin Liang, if you were to analyze what has been done by the No. 1 man thus far, you will see that he has been constantly abusing his powers, not only as in the Ministry of Transport, but starting in MCA as no one has ever tried to curb his abuse of power, that makes him more arrogant and haughty.

1. Disrespecting the will and wish of the central committee members who chose Dr. Chua to be the no. 2 man in MCA by singling him out, and chasing lots of incompetent and incapable persons to head the various units in MCA.
2. Unbelievable and superstitous beliefs in Feng Shui: spending so much money belonging to all MCA members by renovating the MCA building and offices to fulfil his personal wish and greed, putting the Deputy President's office beside the woman's toilet. OMG, this is some thing that is really absurb and no educated person will ever do that!!!!!
3. Chosing a person (Hainanese) who was ousted by a state basketball association cimmittee members as State Basketball Association Chairman to be MCA 'strong' man and one of his advisors.
4. Chosing a man (not sure is Hainanese or not) who failed some of his university papers before to hold another important post and as one of the advisors just because this man helped him in campaigning to be the MCA president. Indisputably, Chinese students will forever score all papers in the university with flying colours. Failing papers in university, what a disgrace to Chinese!
5. Chosing a lady, to most people not capable at all, whio lost in the General Election to be a deputy minister through the back door (another Hainanese, sigh!).
6. Chosing another lady (I was told is a Hainanese), through back door again, to be another Deputy Minister, sigh.
7. Singling out Ong KC who helped him so much in the MCA Election. Without Ong KC and Ong KT's help, he would not be able to defeat Datuk Chua JM!!! ...
and many other issues, dear Miss Shin Liang, please open your eyes.
... to continue

Anonymous said...

... continue ...
Miss Shin Liang, You may argue that the president has the right to exercise his power. You may say as a president, he has the right to use MCA's money. You may say his intention is to increase the ratio of women representatives in the cabinet, etc etc. I do agree, but only to certain degree. We cannot exercise our right beyond justice as it would jeopardize the whole organization. MCA's money is not his money, MCA building is not his private property. Did he get apporoval or consent from the central committee to renovate MCA building and use MCA money in rennovations? No, not at all. This is abuse of power dear Miss Shin Liang! Remember the famous phrase: Absolute power leads to absolute corruption! That's why there is an alarming call and urge to modify MCA's constitutions. Moderating the president's power is one of the issues.
Moreover, even if let's say Chew MF is MCA Women's No. 1 lady, ok, she is appointed through the back door. Fair enough. What about the the Deputy Woman? She is not an MP as she lost in the GE. Why can't she went through back door? Why can't this post being given to the 2nd lady from Seremban? Because she is non-Hainanese? She lost in GE? Ok, don't want two ladies who lost in GE, as opposition parties leaders will have more to comment. Then choose the Johore woman MP Chen AE, after all the quota was supposede to be from Johore. Bear in mind, 7 /15 of the MCA MPs come from Johore!!!!! Or is it because she is not a hainanese?
Dear Miss Shin Liang, there are much more issues, not easy to list one by one, find out for yourself if you are keen to analyze. In politics, corruption of power is inexcusable! Otherwise the whole country will be in a chaos. There must be planning to spend an organization's money, especially when the money comes from the public. If you support this type of leader who abuses his power (simply spending MCA's money by believing in Feng Shui etc, disregarding the GO which governments all cabinet members, close to the suspect under investigation which is not allowed in GO etc etc), I am sorry to say that how are you to be a 'clean' and indisputable when you start working? One day you may lead a team or even larger, are you willing to be tied down by rules and regulations that hopes to make you a perfect leader? Don't argue that there are other leaders who also abuse powers. If you were to say that, then it is similar to saying that he can kill or slaughter another, so you can do so. Ok, let a dog bite you, then you bite the dog? Sorry, no insult to you, just wanna open your horizon of reasoning.
... to continue ...

Anonymous said...

No body says that Dr. Chua is a perfect man. In fact, I did mention earlier in this blog that I didn't have good opinion on him till the case happen. I mentioned here that he is regarded as the BEST Minister of Helath thus far by the medical staff and patients. What I intend to comment here is merely he is being considered as a 'gentleman' by admitting his mistakes. Why can't we give a person who had confessed his wrong doings, being punished (delinquished all his post), and given a chance (but later chosen by othetr people. It's impossible for him to buy the votes of the central committee) to turn a new leaf? If your answer is yes, Dr. Chua cannot be excused, then I suggest you put forth a working paper to all the countries in the world so as to enforce 'Death Sentence' not only on criminals but including those who are involved in any kind of scandals like sex, corruption etc etc. After all, they can't be good any more, they have no way to prove to be good again (because it's our oloquy), so put them to death sentence, close all the jails, don't waste public money on this type of people who cannot be trusted any more! In that case, OTK is amongst the first.

It seems that ~aNG~伟翔 knows you well and he is your acquaintance? You seem got confused of what he was trying to express. I share his opinions. Hoenstly, it's not easy to be a leader. We have to be very careful of what we are doing when we are leading a team. We need to take care not only our own image and personality in particular, but the image of the whole organization in general. Did OTK do that? No, he defames MCA a lot as he maleficently and maliciously his subordinates openly and getting MCA into his private issues with Tiong. More important, a leader should try to restrain and refrain from mixing with controversal people etc etc. You will need to learn these when you start working.

伟翔, keep up your good, critical work. In any blog, there bound to be lots of arguements and disagreements, don't worry about that. What is more important is you should write critically basing on more evidences through reading and analyzing, but if possible, put in more constructive comments, which you did, but can be more. As long as our conscience is clear, don't bother about what other people think. It's only those who have been abusing power and committing sins will keep thinking and worrying other people want to go against him and want to topple him. You know what and who i mean, haha.

伟翔, I guess you are still studying? Is there any way to have a better contact with you? Sorry, I have not written any blog as I am very busy with my work. Later if I can spare some time, I may think of putting some of my humble opinions through many years of working experiences and seeing lots and kinds of people some where. May Buddha bless you.

In Dhamma.
Kampong Anonymous

~aNG~伟翔 said...

Ah Liang (Kampong Anoymouse, is Mr, not Miss lar, . Shin Liang is my Senior and coach in UM Mandarin debate team!), no need be so humble, i learned lots of things from you. I shall thank you not only for promoting my blog but for the things which i have learned from you! Thanks!

Back to our topic. You are really pro with applying your debating skills by "sending so many hats to me".

I admit that i'm a DAP (or rather PR) supporter. But i support DAP is merely because the MCA (or more accurately, the whole BN) is not good enough, or rather say, is worse. So, i vote PR, support them, helping them in election, all this is no much than any normal malaysian will do. I bets you do the same too.

I not a hardrock DAP supporter like yu hui, if you follow my blog constantly, you will discover that i did actually wrote some articles criticized DAP. Besides, i also wrote article to admire Najib government while he announcing some policies which good for Malaysia. Thus, don't try to say i'm biased in commenting this issue and by virtue of this point, so my views are incorrect.

2ndly, I hate OTK, even before he took office as MCA president and Transport minister. Besides the numerous abuses of power by him (kampong anonymous had mentioned more than enough examples for this), i don't like most his personality. He always try to emphasize his morality image, but come on, what he had done? can you recall anything he done have a good moral values except the "Muar primary school 30K turned out to be 3k issue". Sorry, pardon me for could not recall any other than that. He just used that only one issue (and i would say he also not really good in that issue) to constantly build up his moral image. This is so disgusting!!!!

3rdly, the S377A issue. I don't agree with you on this point at all. Don't you remember that when this issue popped-out on early of year 2008, most of the Pakatan Rakyat leaders, including the supremo of PAS, commented this issue as a personal matters of Chua. They will not using this as a tool for political means. In fact, all the "bombs" attacking Chua are from MCA.

With this, i would say that you claimed that Anwar or LKS will used this issue or bring this issue to court (actually, this is a criminal offence, thus anwar could not bring this to court, he could only report it to the police and let the AG to decide whether to charge him in court or not. And when the sex tape was revealed, some MCA members did reported this to the police, and if i'm no mistake, AG had decide no to take action against him) is merely your own imagination. With what i could see, Pakatan Rakyat leaders never used this as a tool for them in any by-election so far. And LKS even claimed that OTk use this reason to sack CSL is ridiculous. As a conclusion to this point, i don't think what you are worry about will occurs.

And i think you agree with me that both of them (OTK and CSL) did "hurt" the party. The distinction is merely one was solid proved (but no charge) and another one was yet to prove (but the matter have been bring to the court). I don't want to go into this two matter to compare which one is worse, but my point is, the Disciplinary Board using the reason that CSL "hurt" the party and so he have to be sacked is ridiculous and unreasonable, and this reason would equally apply to OTK too. ("hurt" is the original word used by the board).

to be continue...

~aNG~伟翔 said...

lastly, liang, i agree with you that in the present stage, one of the figure have to step out to ensure the party can work well. But please think about this: Who made this worst situation which both of them couldn't even sit together now? In my opinions, is needless to argue, is due to OTK. He is the culprit of the MCA current situations. All this is due to his arrogance and dictatorship. At first, CSL did willing to work with him and speack some good words to admire OTK. But OTK refuse to accept all the friendly move of CSL and keep marginalize him in the party as well as outside the party. He give CSL various title, such as immoral man, porn master etc. With all this reasons, how could you blame CSL for the situation now? Is OTK who should borne all this liability and not CSL. And you reason stated that CSL should stepped out is invalid as i have argue it in my 3rd point.

i never said that CSL is perfect, but he is a capable man. Far more capable than OTK (the tyranny). CSL are more suitable to lead MCA.

Kampong Anonymous, you are totally right. I'm currently a final year (4th year) student in University of Malaya studying Law. You can email me anytime to angwoeishang@hotmail.com. I look forward to your mail and possibly learned more from you. Thanks.

shinliang said...

wah kampong anonymous, good arr...you gender discrimination ka? =P

shinliang said...

I don't want to continue on the topic anyway. There's enough comments on it.

There are issues which are 50-50. And I can take it on the chin to agree with you. But just one thing I totally disagree with Kampong anonymous - that one should respect Dr. Chua for him admitting his sex scandal. "The FIRST to do so", he said.

On the first day, maybe he did, and did it boldly too. But on the next day, he said his mistake was only "to use the same hotel room everytime". I find that hardly inspiring.

shinliang said...

Woei Shang, do you agree with Kampong anonymous that Dr. Chua's bravery in admitting his sex scandal was commendable?

(or are you protecting your supporter? ^.^)

Anonymous said...

Mr Ang, You are the most stupid man I have ever seen. Go back to school and study from Std One again!

~aNG~伟翔 said...

"But on the next day, he said his mistake was only "to use the same hotel room everytime". I find that hardly inspiring."

I don't think this is what CSL said ler. If i'm not mistake, what he said is, "there are more politicians have mistress, and the difference is i used the same hotel and same room everytime."

Of course, he try to find excuse here. But i would admired him for his bravely move to apologize publicly and resigned all his post in MCA as well as in the government.

Haha, kampong anonymous is not my supporters, we just have same view and you have your different views. Don't think the protection is needed in our discussions^^.

---------

Mr Anonymouos 3, maybe i'm stupid as you alleged. But please put your points and your suggestions here. I would accepts whole heartedly your advices and suggestions.

Anonymous said...

Woei Shang,
Kampong anonumous here again.
Thanks for your email. I had added you into my msn. Don't be surprise if one day when I see you online in msn, I click you, haha. I was from University of Malaya too, but that was a long time ago. Thanks for letting me know that Shin Liang is a male, what a blunder I made, haha. As I had said, there bound to be differences in opinions, more so you are studying law. In sociology, there is no absolute 'right' and no absolute 'wrong', it's the dregree of 'right' and 'wrong' that matters. I think we can share our opinions, I was once like you, but as time goes by, things have changed, and I have 'slow' down in many ways. Know what, 2 or 3 years back, I used to ask my immediate subordinates who know chinese language to read the book written by Ong TK, but now? Don't ever ask me to promote any more. I can promote a book written by an author who has 'split' characters!

Mr Sin Liang,
Sorry, I don't know that you are a male, definitely not gender discrimination, but it was just either from your points of view put forth leading me to wrong judgement or your name, sorry again. I beg you are not a law student basing on my humble inference basing on your fast and abrupt judgement on others. Lawyers will never do that!!!!! I only mentioned that Dr. Chua is the First, till now, politician in Malaysia, to admit his wrong doings, rare species in malaysia. Look at the present situations. How many will admit? Even the one with the huge 'palace' in selangor and the one with big bungalo in penang, sigh! Find out how sabah MCA leaders were chased out by him
Actually, it's only the Blog master has the right to suggest stopping in this issue or not. If you find it enough, you don't have to write and don't have to read, others maybe interested.When comes to arguements to debate out a topic or an issue, justice will never say: It's enough arguement here, stop it. Go to next, right? maybe you are a very good school or varsity debator, but bear in mind, those debates are restricted by fixed times. Court cases are different. If any one is still inetrested in this topic, I am sure your friend or you junior Woei Shang, would not put a stop to it. I seem to know your firend more than you who knows him for years. I only started, some how, following his blog since yesterday. Maybe I didn't tell you that when I was a student, i used to take part in speeches and debates!

Mr Anonymous 3,
You are just too rude, and I think you are his strong supporter. You must learn to respect people. If you don't know how to repect people, like the Greatest Man in the world, who's going to respect him? Unless those puppy who begs him for a better living!!!!! Look at the sms published in the blogs, very disgusting. Unbelievable tha it was written by an educated person, OMG.

shinliang said...

yes. it's the blog master's prerogative to continue or discontinue with the argument. i'm not asking him to stop.

i'm merely saying i will be stopping.

was you the one that said, "sorry...you didn't use your brain to analyse things..." in the earlier comment?

and also the one who just said, "Mr Anonymous 3, You are just too rude..."?

Hmm....if not, you are right again, I was too fast to judge. Sorry.

And yes, maybe i'm only a good debater on stage, maybe. Again, you may be right.

Anonymous said...

Dear Woei Shang,
Just to share with you something I found from the internet:

問題一: 如果你知道有一個女人懷孕了,她已經生了八個小孩,其中有三個耳朵聾、兩個眼睛瞎、一個智能不足,而這女人自己又有梅毒,請問,你會建議她墮胎嗎?

問題二: 現在要選舉一名領袖.
下面是關於這三位候選人的一些事實:

候選人A: 跟一些不誠實的政客有往來,而且會咨詢占星學家。 他有婚外情,是一個老煙槍,每天喝8─10杯的馬丁尼。

候選人B: 他過去有兩次被解雇的記錄,睡覺睡到中午才起來, 大學時吸過鴉片,而且每天傍晚會喝一夸特的威士忌。

候選人C: 他是一位受勛的戰爭英雄,素食主義者,不抽煙,只偶爾喝一點啤酒。從沒有發生過婚外情。

請問你會在這些候選人中選哪一個?

Woei Shang, your answers?
Most of the people will have a set of values by their own to determine what is wrong and what is right.

As a norm, the explanation and answer to question 1 most likely will be:

我們受計劃生育優生優育教育多年了,都生那麼多歪瓜劣棗了, 當然墮胎啊。

Then: 我們殺了貝多芬,她是貝多芬的母親。
I believe most of the people, like my subordinates will choose Candidate C for the second question. Now, the name of the three candidates are as follow:

候選人是:

A:富蘭克林‧羅斯福,
B:溫斯頓‧邱吉爾,
C:亞道夫‧希特勒。

So, we want to choose a crazy murderer?

I think this sentence best fits

不要用既定的價值觀來思考事物

I am so sorry your friend seems look at things in a different perspective. Is sex scandal more serious then corruption? The world has changed. please refer to the malysiakini:

http://www.malaysiakini.com/columns/111632

I hope there is no more arguement about corruptions as he himself had admitted the abuse of power by sitting private planes, other abuses of power are significant and indisputable.

I am a much more elderly man, and most of the central committee of MCA are also elderly people, at least older than you and your friend, we can forgive him, but it seems that your friend is too 'old fashion', haha. Please bear in mind, forgiving is not equal to admitting he is not wrong. I iterate again: he had been punished by delinquishing his posts. We can't punish a person twice basing on the same wrong doings, future lawyer, maybe high court justice one day, right? so a person without feelings of forgiveness CANNOT be a lawyer / justice. I hope this comment does not hurt your friend!

If we allow corruptions to be practised without curbing, then what will happen to our beloved country? We should start from ourselves first, at least the chinese-based parties should be free from corruptions! I am pretty sure that you and your friend can't dispute this point!

Anonymous said...

Dear Woei Shang,
I am Kampong Anonymous, sorry I forgot to aknowledge myself in the previous comment. I am the one to quote the two questions I read some where. I always believe a coin has two sides, we shouldn't 'abuse' our pre-set values and judgements to determine what's wrong and what's right on others, there is always a boundary to everything we do in this world. Practice more Buddhist teachings, then we will know the more we try to be forgiving, the happier and merrier we will be. There is no point to wear huge buddhist beads but act like a 'murderer'. I think you know what I mean.

Mr. Shin Liang,
I am very sorry if my comments have agonized you. I don't have any ill, maleficent and malicious intention to criticise or upset you, please trust me. I am not like other people who have split characters. Pardon me if my comments have disturbed your feelings. It's just a change of opinions, rigth?

Best regards to all here.
Kampong Anonymous.

Anonymous said...

Dear Woei Shang,
Kampong anonymous here again.
Ehmm ... when did I become one of your supporters? Absurb! As you have said, we have similar opinion here, but maybe our views on other issues may differ greatly, and arguements and debatings may arise in future, right? Haha. In fact, you said that you are DAP supporter, but my father was one of the MCA branch founders in my village and I support MCA, but not some of the present leaders. I can't tolerate people abusing power and I greatly despise and disdain on this type of people.

shinliang said...

yes, you annoy me.

But don't worry, i'm not in agony. you are not that good. =P

Anonymous said...

Woei Shang and Shin Liang,

Kampong Anonymous here.
Try to be busy body again. I just read about the sex scandal again, but this time is related to the self-claimed HOLY MAN.
Check out:

https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=7335936394767395066&postID=4763838839423103417

and find out whether it's true or not. Or if you have the phone number of the wife to some one, try to call up and mention the name, then things will unveil.

Anonymous said...

Dear Woei Shang & Shin Liang,

please check the info:
http://www.malaysiakini.com/news/111643 & http://cakappolitikmca.blogspot.com

Tiong had made a police report against Ong Tk, it's abt the RM 10 Million

Kg Anonymous

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